Kaberle and the Canucks
Posted 5:43 PM ET | Comments 24
With all the hysteria by a few Canucks fans on the Leaf Blogs these past few days, I thought I might try to inject my 7% solution into the potential trade of Kaberle to the Canucks.
First, my take on Kaberle: HOLY CRAP!!! GET HIM, GET HIM, GET HIM, GET HIM!!!!!!!!
Uh sorry, did I say that out loud? Oops. Anyway, about Kaberle: He is not just a 'puck moving defenseman', he is a premium offensive defenseman. He can play in your top pairing, pass the puck accurately, run your first power play unit etc. etc. etc. In his prime, he was at the same level as Dan Boyle, Shea Weber and Andrei Markov - just a step below Scott Niedermeyer and Nick Lidstrom.
However, his points per game have slipped over the past 2 years (from 0.78ppg to 0.65ppg to 0.54ppg last year), and he probably only has 2 or 3 really good years left. Coincidentally, his contract expires in 2 years. How convenient.
Now, many Leafs fans insist that since Burke signed Gustavsson they have no need for Schneider (I agree), and therefore the only tradable players Vancouver has (for a player like Kaberle) are Hodgson and Kessler.
But from a Vancouver perspective, Hodgson is off limits - Vancouver fans (and Canucks management) are much too emotionally invested in the idea of Hodgson. That is; the idea that for the first time in 2 decades we have a 1st round prospect with the potential to be an all star.
Surely Toronto fans can understand this feeling. They have experienced, and are experiencing the same emotional attachment with respect to Luke Schenn. So please, Leafs Fan, put your hands behind your head and back away from Mr. Hodgson.
And as for Ryan Kessler, he is much more likely to be part of any trade the Canucks make - if only because he has value in the marketplace. Still, it would be very tough for Gillis to trade either Ryan Kesler or Alex Burroughs. I don't know if fans of other teams know this, but Kesler and Burroughs have nicknames in this market: Heart and Soul.
How does Gillis justify trading away 'Heart ' or 'Soul'?
Well, he might justify it by explaining that Ryan Kesler is going to need a contract extension, and that contract extension means we could be paying a second line winger, or third line center, more than 4 million per year.
Kaberle for Kessler and ? (M. Raymond? 2nd rd pick? J. Hansen?). Well, maybe.
I think we are all forgetting about Jordan Schroeder. He was never the Canuck management's choice - he just kind of fell into their lap, so Gillis and co. are not as emotionally invested in the Mighty Mite as they are with Hodgson.
Many fans here didn't even know who this guy was. They knew he was rated higher than #22, but the vast majority of Canucks followers didn't know much about Schroeder, so I think it is safe to say the fans have not deified this guy to the extent they have with Hodgson.
Jordan Schroeder will be ready for the NHL in two years. So will Nazim Kadri. I know Leaf fans are impatient, but the potential for a Sharp/Kane type combo has to be intriguing for Mr. BB. So how about:
Kaberle for J. Schroeder, M. Raymond, and a 2nd Rd. Pick in 2011 or
Kaberle for J. Schroeder, and M. Grabner
Remember folks, if Brian Burke wanted to win now, there would be absolutely no reason to trade Kaberle. BB is trying to build a team that can compete for a playoff berth now, but can compete for a Stanley cup in 3 years.
He needs to trade Kaberle for top quality prospects (recent 1st round picks), or future 1st round picks, or a budding superstar like Phil Kessel. Dealing T. Kaberle for a couple of established (older) second line / borderline 1st line forwards will only get them back to the same place they've been for the last 30 years. Come on Leafs fan, try to see the big picture for a change - look to the future for your salvation.
If, and that is a huge IF, a deal for Kaberle is possible I think Jordan Schroeder is the centerpiece. What do you think?
P.S. Since I can't seem to post a comment, I will address a couple of your comments by edit.
Flopper99: Jordan Schroeder was Vancouver's 1st rd pick this year. At the end of the season he was the 5th ranked North American skater by NHL Central Scouting (Kadri was ranked 15th), and Inter'l Scouting Service (ISS) had Schroeder 14th overall (Kadri was ranked 8th).
Gusto: I certainly never compared either Schroeder, or Kadri to J. Toews - in my opinion he is on a different level. What i said was Kane and Sharp. And what I meant was that Toronto could have a pair of young, dynamic, exciting, offensive forwards who could get 130 to 150 points per year (I think Kane and Sharp manged around 120pts between them last season).
Thanks for the comments everyone!
First, my take on Kaberle: HOLY CRAP!!! GET HIM, GET HIM, GET HIM, GET HIM!!!!!!!!
Uh sorry, did I say that out loud? Oops. Anyway, about Kaberle: He is not just a 'puck moving defenseman', he is a premium offensive defenseman. He can play in your top pairing, pass the puck accurately, run your first power play unit etc. etc. etc. In his prime, he was at the same level as Dan Boyle, Shea Weber and Andrei Markov - just a step below Scott Niedermeyer and Nick Lidstrom.
However, his points per game have slipped over the past 2 years (from 0.78ppg to 0.65ppg to 0.54ppg last year), and he probably only has 2 or 3 really good years left. Coincidentally, his contract expires in 2 years. How convenient.
Now, many Leafs fans insist that since Burke signed Gustavsson they have no need for Schneider (I agree), and therefore the only tradable players Vancouver has (for a player like Kaberle) are Hodgson and Kessler.
But from a Vancouver perspective, Hodgson is off limits - Vancouver fans (and Canucks management) are much too emotionally invested in the idea of Hodgson. That is; the idea that for the first time in 2 decades we have a 1st round prospect with the potential to be an all star.
Surely Toronto fans can understand this feeling. They have experienced, and are experiencing the same emotional attachment with respect to Luke Schenn. So please, Leafs Fan, put your hands behind your head and back away from Mr. Hodgson.
And as for Ryan Kessler, he is much more likely to be part of any trade the Canucks make - if only because he has value in the marketplace. Still, it would be very tough for Gillis to trade either Ryan Kesler or Alex Burroughs. I don't know if fans of other teams know this, but Kesler and Burroughs have nicknames in this market: Heart and Soul.
How does Gillis justify trading away 'Heart ' or 'Soul'?
Well, he might justify it by explaining that Ryan Kesler is going to need a contract extension, and that contract extension means we could be paying a second line winger, or third line center, more than 4 million per year.
Kaberle for Kessler and ? (M. Raymond? 2nd rd pick? J. Hansen?). Well, maybe.
I think we are all forgetting about Jordan Schroeder. He was never the Canuck management's choice - he just kind of fell into their lap, so Gillis and co. are not as emotionally invested in the Mighty Mite as they are with Hodgson.
Many fans here didn't even know who this guy was. They knew he was rated higher than #22, but the vast majority of Canucks followers didn't know much about Schroeder, so I think it is safe to say the fans have not deified this guy to the extent they have with Hodgson.
Jordan Schroeder will be ready for the NHL in two years. So will Nazim Kadri. I know Leaf fans are impatient, but the potential for a Sharp/Kane type combo has to be intriguing for Mr. BB. So how about:
Kaberle for J. Schroeder, M. Raymond, and a 2nd Rd. Pick in 2011 or
Kaberle for J. Schroeder, and M. Grabner
Remember folks, if Brian Burke wanted to win now, there would be absolutely no reason to trade Kaberle. BB is trying to build a team that can compete for a playoff berth now, but can compete for a Stanley cup in 3 years.
He needs to trade Kaberle for top quality prospects (recent 1st round picks), or future 1st round picks, or a budding superstar like Phil Kessel. Dealing T. Kaberle for a couple of established (older) second line / borderline 1st line forwards will only get them back to the same place they've been for the last 30 years. Come on Leafs fan, try to see the big picture for a change - look to the future for your salvation.
If, and that is a huge IF, a deal for Kaberle is possible I think Jordan Schroeder is the centerpiece. What do you think?
P.S. Since I can't seem to post a comment, I will address a couple of your comments by edit.
Flopper99: Jordan Schroeder was Vancouver's 1st rd pick this year. At the end of the season he was the 5th ranked North American skater by NHL Central Scouting (Kadri was ranked 15th), and Inter'l Scouting Service (ISS) had Schroeder 14th overall (Kadri was ranked 8th).
Gusto: I certainly never compared either Schroeder, or Kadri to J. Toews - in my opinion he is on a different level. What i said was Kane and Sharp. And what I meant was that Toronto could have a pair of young, dynamic, exciting, offensive forwards who could get 130 to 150 points per year (I think Kane and Sharp manged around 120pts between them last season).
Thanks for the comments everyone!
Who the hell is Jordan Schroeder? He isnt even in the hockey player database. Therefore I do not think he would be involved in a trade with an all-star defenceman.
Kabby for a 2nd and 3 water bottles
I love how fans of teams fall in love with the idea of what they think a player is.. Jordan Schroeder shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath as Toews or Kane. maybe you should stick to making trades in NHL 09 instead of saying your insane ideas out loud.. it will be Kaberle for Hodgeson or someone else that is a litlle more of a blue chip than Jordan Schroeder... nuck fans are nuckin futz...
i agree that hodgeson would be off limits, but that grabner guy seems like a solid prospect to go along with a kesler or burrows.
holy shit, its cody hodgson, i dont care about spelling but atleast get names right, damn you east coast kids are stupid
hodgeson! oops.. who effin cares
I had a draft-gasm for Canucks fans when they got Schroeder at 22! There hasn't been such perceived steal since the Flames got Backlund and the Rangers got Cherepanov in the late first round. Of course I would prefer Hodgson for his intangibles and maybe the surprise acquisition of Schroeder makes him more likely to move... but I would take Schroeder in a heartbeat and Leafs fans who are being negative need to look this guy up before commenting.
That being said... seeing as Schroeder won't be ready immediately... I think I would want more in the way of draft picks/prospects than Grabner or Raymond... Frankly, I'm not really sold on either one of them. Grabner has higher ceiling but less chance to reach it, while Raymond seems to have stalled at the NHL level.
MZ33, don't start another geography war. They just get ugly and bans start flying around... :-S
Hodgson is a blue chipper and either he or Schroeder need to be part of a Kaberle deal but if it's Schroeder...we'll need another 1st rounder in 2010/2011 because Grabner is an Alexsander Suglobov (remember him....didn't think so)....Raymond, Burrows and Kesler are key pieces to Vanoucer's current make-up! I like Kaberle for Hodgson or Kaberle for Schroeder, spare part and a 1st.
I concur Leafsprospe... I definitely LoL'd at Suglobov... could even make it more topical and give a comparison to Lonny Bohonos... ;-) Just kidding 'Nuckers... Grabner is not Lonny.
Thanks for the comments guys. I actually think Grabner is Peter Sykora - he'll be useless unless he plays in your top 6, and he will disappear for long stretches, but at the end of the year he will (magically) have 25-30 goals. Still, 25-30 goals a year is nothing to sneeze at.......
Hodgson would be great but it's never going to happen. If it did Gillis should be fired. Schroeder is a solid prospect but at 5'8" he is hardly a BB kind of player, he is American and Leafs seem to be building Team USA(Komisarik,Finger,Blake,Stempniak...) so it's possible. Shroeder is no wimp either I believe he was 2nd or 3rd among all prospects in the bench press at the pre draft combine. What is Keslers contract situation didn't the Nucks have to overpay to keep him away from Philly?
Hi Randy. Ryan Kessler is at a sweet 1.75M cap hit right now. Philly offered, and Van matched 1.9M/yr 5 years ago, but when that 2 yr deal expired he signed a new deal for less. Some confusion about his status next summer though; Capgeek.com has him as a UFA, but NHLSCAP has him as RFA w/Arb. rights.
Why are you guys lasting this blog?? YOU guys are such MORONS....it wasn't a bad blog.I love how everybody has an opinion and yet nothing positive come out of anyones mouth! SHUT THE FUCK and don't read. I'm a leaf fan and this blog got me thinking a little. For the poeple who don't know who Jordan Schroeder is ...... get a clue. This kid ain't all that bad and plus the Sharp/Kane comparison was a just a simple example....not an expectation that Schroeder is the same player.FUCKIN MORONS MAKE ME SICK!
wow. seems like there's a lot of anger floating around these days. let's all chill guys... until Hodgson or Schroeder or anyone moves... then we can write pissed off blogs and comments. :-Pquick little addendum to Randy: Brian Burke has no issue with undersized skilled performers. in his Anaheim and Vancouver times he employed undersized skilled guys like Andy McDonald, Selanne, Andrew Cassels, Brendan Morrison, and Andrew Ebbett
just so i know how much hodgson means to you nucks fans would would it take? like seriously
PJ, the Hodgson situation is not about logic. Logically you might trade Hodgson for any number of former top 10 draft picks. He's not the Second Coming after all. This is about emotion - it's almost psychotic in a way. Reality has no power within the sphere Canuck fans have built around Cody. I feel sorry for the kid, really.
flopper you didnt watch the world juniors did you, Schroeder was a huge steal at 22nd
Everyone is a huge steal until they make the show. I agree that both Schroeder and Hodgson have excellent upside but I can recall many "superstar" World Junior stars that never turned out. Adam Creighton, Daniel Tkaczuk , Mike Craig , or Scott Pellerin!
KESLER
I wouldn't trade Hodgson for the entire Leafs roster. Kaberle isn't worth a 1st round pick. He is worth a top 6 forward and a prospect.