Flyers Defense: mid-season grades
Posted 12:29 PM ET | Comments 10
Timonen : A+
6.3 mill/yr - signed thru 2012/13
Kimmo is this generations Mark Howe. If he stays healthy, he will outperform his stellar 07-08 season by 10 points. So far this season Timonen leads all Flyers defenders with 28 pts in 42 games (.67ppg). Those numbers rank him 13th overall in the league, keeping stride with elite players like Lidstrom, Campbell, Pronger, etc. Kimmo is +3 for the season with only 32pims over his 25:15 TOI/G. His PP TOI averages to 4:21.
Coburn : A-
1.3 mill/yr - signed thru 2009/10
Coburn is on pace with his last season's performance. He is a great team player, strong around the net, solid positioning and is very competetive (note fist pumping last playoffs). He has chipped in 17 points and played in all 43 games (.4ppg). With +1 and 54pims his defensive presence commands respect! He ranks 1st on the team in ice-time TOI/G 25:17 and has PP/TOI/G 2:49. Braydon is 23 yrs old.
Carle: B+
2.9 mill/yr - signed thru 2011/12
A steal of a trade in my opinion (although post-Flyers Eminger has been red hot). Carle has chipped in 9pts in his 25 games as a Flyer (.36ppg). With a respectable +6 and only 4 pims over 22:02 TOI/G !! He ranks 3rd in PP/TOI/G for defencemen at 2:15 and is also only 23 yrs old.
Vaananen: B
1.0 mill/yr - signed thru 2008/09
Ossi, Ossi, Ossi goes the chant on youtube! I can now see why he is such a respected defenceman at all levels of play. He is positionally sound, a solid pass/outlet and hits hard. A respectful 9 points in 35 games (.26ppg) with a +4 rating and 22pim. At 19:58 TOI/G he gets a lot of ice-time because he is often paired with Timonen, and they are a great compliment together. He also gets props for being a great value at his 1mill salary. Come on Homer, Ossi needs to be re-signed to a multi-year contract!
Jones: B-
2.75 mill/yr - signed thru 2009/10
With only 1 point in 11 games (.1ppg) since his return from IR, Jones is obviously still working to get back to last season's form. I expect Randy will either be traded to clear up much needed cap space, or we will hold on to him and hope that he comes back to last seasons form come playoff time. He has a +2 rating with only 6pims over a team fourth 18:34 TOI/G and 1:16 PP/TOI/G. When on his game, he is an impact 2nd line defender.
Alberts: B-
1.223 mill/yr - signed thru 2008/09
A great surprise! Although Alberts has had a handful of weaker performances,<br>he has generally been a very steady and reliable 3rd pairing defenceman. <br>He has chipped in 10 points in 40 games (.25ppg) and has a team leading +7 <br>(tied with Carle) with a nice 42pims. He is a gritty player, and Im sure there's no <br>love lost from Hartnell's hit from last season. He averages 15:21 TOI/G and has been a surprisingly solid pickup at just over a mill.
Sbisa: B-
0.875 mill/yr - signed thru 2010/11
Flyers score big in this years draft! Luca will turn 19 in 2 weeks. Offence, Defence.. what a talented rookie! His stats are 7 points in 38 games (.19ppg). He makes mistakes, as any rookie is prone to do, which is apparent in his -4 and 36pims, but his overall game is very respectable, averaging a whopping 17:34 TOI/G. Stevens has rewarded the kid with 1:40 PP/TOI/G and a few games playing forward position! With Sbisa in the mix as our 7th defender, I feel good about our Defensive depth come playoffs.
Noteworthy:
Kukkonen 2p/19gp(.11ppg) -1/10pim toi/g 11:10 played some forward and now has been waived again.
Parent : IR
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Comments are welcome...
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6.3 mill/yr - signed thru 2012/13
Kimmo is this generations Mark Howe. If he stays healthy, he will outperform his stellar 07-08 season by 10 points. So far this season Timonen leads all Flyers defenders with 28 pts in 42 games (.67ppg). Those numbers rank him 13th overall in the league, keeping stride with elite players like Lidstrom, Campbell, Pronger, etc. Kimmo is +3 for the season with only 32pims over his 25:15 TOI/G. His PP TOI averages to 4:21.
Coburn : A-
1.3 mill/yr - signed thru 2009/10
Coburn is on pace with his last season's performance. He is a great team player, strong around the net, solid positioning and is very competetive (note fist pumping last playoffs). He has chipped in 17 points and played in all 43 games (.4ppg). With +1 and 54pims his defensive presence commands respect! He ranks 1st on the team in ice-time TOI/G 25:17 and has PP/TOI/G 2:49. Braydon is 23 yrs old.
Carle: B+
2.9 mill/yr - signed thru 2011/12
A steal of a trade in my opinion (although post-Flyers Eminger has been red hot). Carle has chipped in 9pts in his 25 games as a Flyer (.36ppg). With a respectable +6 and only 4 pims over 22:02 TOI/G !! He ranks 3rd in PP/TOI/G for defencemen at 2:15 and is also only 23 yrs old.
Vaananen: B
1.0 mill/yr - signed thru 2008/09
Ossi, Ossi, Ossi goes the chant on youtube! I can now see why he is such a respected defenceman at all levels of play. He is positionally sound, a solid pass/outlet and hits hard. A respectful 9 points in 35 games (.26ppg) with a +4 rating and 22pim. At 19:58 TOI/G he gets a lot of ice-time because he is often paired with Timonen, and they are a great compliment together. He also gets props for being a great value at his 1mill salary. Come on Homer, Ossi needs to be re-signed to a multi-year contract!
Jones: B-
2.75 mill/yr - signed thru 2009/10
With only 1 point in 11 games (.1ppg) since his return from IR, Jones is obviously still working to get back to last season's form. I expect Randy will either be traded to clear up much needed cap space, or we will hold on to him and hope that he comes back to last seasons form come playoff time. He has a +2 rating with only 6pims over a team fourth 18:34 TOI/G and 1:16 PP/TOI/G. When on his game, he is an impact 2nd line defender.
Alberts: B-
1.223 mill/yr - signed thru 2008/09
A great surprise! Although Alberts has had a handful of weaker performances,<br>he has generally been a very steady and reliable 3rd pairing defenceman. <br>He has chipped in 10 points in 40 games (.25ppg) and has a team leading +7 <br>(tied with Carle) with a nice 42pims. He is a gritty player, and Im sure there's no <br>love lost from Hartnell's hit from last season. He averages 15:21 TOI/G and has been a surprisingly solid pickup at just over a mill.
Sbisa: B-
0.875 mill/yr - signed thru 2010/11
Flyers score big in this years draft! Luca will turn 19 in 2 weeks. Offence, Defence.. what a talented rookie! His stats are 7 points in 38 games (.19ppg). He makes mistakes, as any rookie is prone to do, which is apparent in his -4 and 36pims, but his overall game is very respectable, averaging a whopping 17:34 TOI/G. Stevens has rewarded the kid with 1:40 PP/TOI/G and a few games playing forward position! With Sbisa in the mix as our 7th defender, I feel good about our Defensive depth come playoffs.
Noteworthy:
Kukkonen 2p/19gp(.11ppg) -1/10pim toi/g 11:10 played some forward and now has been waived again.
Parent : IR
<br>
Comments are welcome...
<br><br>
For a team that has allowed the 9th most shots against and the 10th most goals against they sure have a really high grade on defence... nary a 'C' to be found!!My only comment would be that you should probably be a little harder on these guys for grades. For an offensive defenceman, Carle has been a disappointment... I'd say that Tampa Bay made the steal there as they got a guy with a lower cap number who is producing a lot more... Coburn is playing steadily but needs to show improvement if he is to gain that level that his potential suggests he is capable of. Alberts is a cast off who is solid but makes boneheaded plays, Jones has been ineffective, so much that he will likely be waived to make room for Briere... and Sbisa started off great but has really slowed down since the first month of the season. This isn't to say that your grades are far off the mark as the Flyers are a top 10 team in the NHL, but for a team with pretty mediocre defensive stats, you're going to need to be harder on them...
I like most of your assessment. Kimmo is hands down our best defensemen. He takes on the top players all the time, and does it well.Coburn had a rough start to the year, but is not back to the way that he was playing last year.Carle is definately a steal. He doesnt put up a ton of point, but he may be the 2nd best Dman on our team behind Kimmo.Jones is borderline for me. He is just back from injury, but hes had many costly turnovers in our own zone. I wouldnt object to a trade for him to clear up space. On that note...Sbisa. He played exceptional in the beginning of the year when he was getting minutes, and those minutes plummeted when Jones came back. Since then he has been borderline. He needs the minutes, and should be starting on the team.Vannanen is another great pickup. One way that I gauge how well a Dman played during the game is how often you hear his name. You dont wanna hear a d-mans name often, and he hold true to being solid all around.Alberts is a liability in my opinion, but has stopped taking the stupid penalties. Overall, he is doing ok.As a team, I would give the Defense a B, with room for improvement. We always have had trouble against the forecheck on our breakouts from the zone, and also clearing the zone when in danger. Tighten this aspect of the game up, and we are definitely an A caliber defense.
hey A-mar! you can't "steal" eminger and downie for carle. the 1st guy is a 3rd pairing guy on a good team and the 2nd is a project who can't control his emotions. in the long run, the best TB can hope for here is an even deal.
Reply To A-Mar: BOTH are loaded stats! SA/G (shots against per game) .. the difference between 3rd (DAL 27.8) and 26th (PHX 31.8) is a whopping 4 shots. big deal. and same for the GA/G(goals against per game) stat. Philly is 2.86, right in the middle of the league (.2 away from being either top 10 or bottom 10) like 1 extra goal given up every 5 games is such a huge number.
I'm a numbers guy, but stats don't always tell the whole story. Matt Carle makes so many of the subtle little good plays on defense, especially to help get the puck out of the zone, that I think he's actually better than his stats show.
shots against can be blamed against the Defense and players but goals allowed, is the goalies and biron did not have a great start of the season
Habbies, goals against are not on the Goalies alone. Goals against is a team stat. And Bigs, I would give Randy Jones an incomplete. And I wouldn't give Coburn an A. He's struggled somewhat this year. Especially with penalties. I would give him a B or B-
About Carle, I'm just saying the guy is tabbed as a point producing defenceman, but he doesn't produce points... Eminger and Downie are unknown quantities... they could play incredible, they could crap out... right now, Eminger looks like he is turning into the all-around top four blueliner he was projected as when the Caps picked him in the first round... Downie, looks closer to crapping out...
I'm not saying that stats tell the entire story... but you are giving everyone an above average grade... if every Flyer defenceman played an A or B game, then this team would be at the TOP of the 'loaded stats'... I was just using them as an example of how the defence is not as great as you are making it seem... Alberts IS a liability... and Jones has been brutal... how he got 2.75m/yr is a testament to his agent... I'm thinking that the contract is in his head and he's trying to do more than he should. I totally agree with the assessment of Kollarism on Sbisa... Vaananen is a complete steal and the kind of fearless blueliner that every team needs.
I'd give Timo an A, removing the " " due to his slow start...Coburn a B- because he still hasn't returned to form on a consistent basis...Carle a B, he started out pretty good, but the honeymoon is over since some of his weaknesses have surfaced and his minuted reduced...Ossi I'd give a B , due to his surprisingly solid play and good value at $1mm....Jones I give a C , because, while he's looked good at times, he's looked bad at times, so net-net, he's been pretty average...that said, I can see the case for giving him some benefit of the doubt due to having played only a small amount of games coming off injury. I more or less agree w the B- for Alberts, he steadied nicely after a shaky start w the team and provides good value to the team at his price...Sbisa I give a B ...for an 18 yr old to come in and play like he did, especially early on before Jones came back and pushed him out was impressive. As far as Carle being a steal for the Flyers, I know a lot of talking heads liked to think that was the case and said so after the deal was made, but I see little to no evidence of such in terms of how the players have played thus far for their respective teams. Carle has been decent and has upside, but one could make the case that Eminger has outperformed Carle, on a team that's much worse, for a salary that's much less. Consider further that Downie is tearing up the AHL as a 21 yr old and I don't see any steal by the Flyers here.