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Pittsburgh, PA • United States • 48 Years Old • Male

Who Complains More?

Posted 10:15 AM ET | Comments 44
Crosby or Flyer Fans?

Just for fun, I like to read the opposing team's blog and comments during the playoffs. It helps me to get a true hatred for the other team's fans going!

I am kidding of course.

I have been alive too long to HATE any other team's fans or even any of the other teams at this point...although as players go...Scott Hartnell is tough to like...when he is NOT on YOUR team. But I guess he wouldn't be a very effective player if that wasn't the case.

So, leading up to and through this series I have read Bill Meltzer's and Tim Panaccio's blogs (as well as others on the net) and the numerous comments from the Flyer (and some Penguin) fans.

Given the well established criticism that Sidney Crosby gets from the Flyer nation...something struck me as a bit ironic.

Philly fans REALLY like to complain...probably MORE than Sid does...

Now, don't get me wrong, PLENTY of Penguins fans complain too...it's just that there seem to be many, many replies by Philly fans and LOTS of them are complaints about numerous things.

These are in no particular order...

Crosby's diving.
Crosby's whining.
Uneven officiating caused by Crosby's whining.
Gary Bettman's obsession with...Sidney Crosby.
The Pens are a two man team.
The Pens fans are whiners
Crosby is not as good as Ovechkin

and on and on...

Of course, one of the main vote getters in the "most popular complaint" category would be Crosby's whining.

Here's the funny thing about that...in this series I am really not seeing that as being an issue - especially as it pertains to power play chances

First, let me get one thing clear...I am not here to debate what SHOULD and SHOULD NOT have been called a penalty. We could be here for the rest of our lives talking about that. For the record, so far, I think there has been a pretty even amount of calls vs. non calls (that should have been calls) for both teams...including a number of high sticks against both teams that were missed.

Though 4 games, the total power play chances are 25 for the Pens and 22 for the Flyers.

A Flyer fan might argue...Hey, there is your proof right there!!!! The Crosby Effect!!!

But look a little deeper.

In game one, the Pens showed up to play, and frankly, the Flyers DID NOT. The Flyers were clearly the slower team in game 1 and until later in the contest, were totally outplayed. In that game the Pens had 9 power plays and the Flyers had 4. That's a big difference. But if you keep in mind how lopsided most of the game was...and how the Flyers simply did not seem to have their legs in that game (as most Flyer fans would HAVE to agree), it's not too tough to see how uneven power play chances could occur. When you are not moving your feet, you are definitely more likely to use your stick in ways that are illegal.

Game 2..Pens had 5, Flyers had 4...Game 3...both teams 6...Game 4... Flyers 8, Pens 5..

So, over the last 3 games, which have been very competitive, the Flyers actually hold an 18-16 advantage in power play chances.

And if I am not mistaken, there have been more calls made for hooking and holding Jordan Staal or Evgeni Malkin than there have been for doing the same to Crosby. In fact, to the best of my recollection, I can only think of 1 or maybe 2 calls that have been directly associated with Crosby during this series (penalties committed while defending Crosby).

So if Crosby is whining to the refs...I am not seeing it as really helping the Penguins to date.

The second most popular (by no scientific means of measuring whatsoever), is that Crosby is a diver.

Well...honestly...I haven't seen him take one in this series.

On the other hand...I saw a few interesting "falls" by Flyers last night. A very large and strong guy named Knuble took an interesting fall from what looked like "minor" contact...and Scott Hartnell seemed to lose his edge while trying to cut back to the net after what appeared to be "marginal" contact by Sergei Gonchar...both resulting in Flyer power plays.

But even more interesting were the number of Flyers that seemed to lose their complete ability to skate and thus fell helplessly on top of goaltender Marc Andre Fleury.

Let's face it...Crosby's goal was a tough one to take. As a Pens fan, I can honestly say I would have been PO'ed too if the Flyers had scored with a player "crashing" the net.

I think the goal call, although tough to take, was legit. And I knew the rest of the game the Flyers would be crashing the net...which they did.

But by late in the 3rd period, it was almost comical how frequently Flyers were "falling" all over Fleury. They should have awarded style points for those efforts. The "Flying Powe" and the "Double Lupul" would be good names for a couple of those.

(Unofficial stats of the night: Pens won the game 3-1 but the Flyers won the "players into the opposing net" contest 4-1).

And that brings me to my last point. Complaints that the Pens are a two man show.

I think it's safe to say that we have a pretty good goalie here in Pittsburgh. He did not perform to his standards in game 3 and he made sure everybody forgot about that quickly in game 4. Granted, in game 3 he did not get much defensive help, but in game 4 he made sure it DIDN'T MATTER how much defensive help he got. He was brilliant. If it were not for a vicious body check by Orpik that sent a helpless Lupul flying into Fleury and knocking him down (please read the sarcasm in that body check comment), Fleury may have even saved the follow-up shot that Carcillo scored Philly's only goal on.

Offensively, it's tough to argue the impact of Crosby and Malkin...they have 6 and 7 points respectively and have scored 6 goals. But there are 13 other Penguins who have registered at least 1 point in the series and 5 other players have scored a total of 7 goals (Guerin 2, Kennedy 2. Talbot, Eaton and Scuderi all with 1). So there have been contributions from many other players...including the Kennedy GW from last night.

I guess where I am going with all of this is that I understand fans love their teams. I understand they like to "argue" with the opposing teams fans. I also know that NO fan can be completely objective...being "fanatic" about one team makes that virtually impossible.

BUT...fans CAN be more realistic and knowledgeable. And it's that second one that all fans should strive for...being more knowledgeable.

When you watch a game, you watch it with your eyes...but as a fan, you see it with your heart.

Sometimes it's a good idea to look at the numbers a little and try to get some distance from the emotional element of the game...that way you can get a better appreciation for what's really going on.

What's really going on in this series is...

Crosby is NOT whining more or less than anybody else

Crosby is not diving more or less (well probably less) than anybody else

The refs have been pretty even in their calling of the games...they are screwing up calls for both sides on an equal basis (if it helps for you to think of it negatively)

The Penguins are a pretty well rounded team...with a goalie who CAN BE EXCEPTIONAL when he is focused like he was last night...

Right now, the Penguins deserve to be up 3-1 in the series...mostly because Philly did not show up in game 1.

Flyer Fans complain more than Sidney Crosby does...
Filed Under:   pens   flyers   crosby   playoffs   fleury   penalties   malkin   talbot  
April 22, 2009 10:37 AM ET | Delete
Its true. Flyers fans do complain but how does that makes us different from any other fans? Also Flyers fans arent the only fans in the world complaining about Crosby. Im willing to bet that if the situation was reversed and the Flyers were up in this series you Pens fans might have a little complaining to do as would any fan that is losing.
April 22, 2009 10:39 AM ET | Delete
amen......amen...amen.......I applaud your ability to see the truth.Flyers fans are hilarious. Cant wait to hear "well..if we would have beat Pittsburgh, we would have won the whole thing". I hear that even WHEN they lose in the first round, they are campaigning to get Giroux the Conn Smythe. Tea parties and the whole deal. And the Calder, and the Vezina, and the Norris.
April 22, 2009 10:40 AM ET | Delete
youre complaining yourself by even writing this blog, so get off your horse
April 22, 2009 10:41 AM ET | Delete
The Flyers would NEVER want Sid or Geno. Or Ovie for that matter....that would destroy the "team depth" concept that they have been so successful with over the last 20 years.Well..maybe theyd take Ovie.....He was on the Fan 590 and said its always been his dream to play for the Flyers.....just ask any Flyer fan
April 22, 2009 10:42 AM ET | Delete
Cindy's a big baby and the refs make it much worse.
April 22, 2009 10:42 AM ET | Delete
with respect to the pens DESERVING to be up 3-1, thats funny. the pens had no business winning last night, fleury flat out stole the game, which goalies do in playoffs. games 2 and 4 could have gone either way, pens dominated game 1 and we dominated game 3. the different in the series is the pens had a goalie who stole a game. this series could easily be 2-2.
April 22, 2009 10:45 AM ET | Delete
flyershockey - Hey...everybody has a right to comment or complain...please feel free to do so...just be honest about it...and try to see what's really going on instead of spouting off about things that are not even happening (not saying that you do that...but plenty of others seem to)...and maybe realize that Flyer fans could probably solve half the world's problems if they spent the time they use to complain about Crosby on something more constructive...like solving the world's problems...
April 22, 2009 10:47 AM ET | Delete
dengler8 - just the type of insightful comment I was hoping for ...thanks...
April 22, 2009 10:51 AM ET | Delete
flyershockey - Fleury may have stolen the show...but just as you said, that happens in playoff hockey. How many games did Broduer or Roy steal in winning playoff rounds or cups? It is necessary for this to happen if you want to have a good/great team. It just means we have a goalie who can play great games...which helps make us a better team.
April 22, 2009 10:55 AM ET | Delete
just wait..youll see......once Cechmanek ...errr....BOUCHER....errrr....sorry..OULETTE.....errrrr....NITTY gets some experience..youll see.....Funny...I dont see as many "thank yous" to Buffalo for Biron and Briere anymore...
April 22, 2009 10:57 AM ET | Delete
"could easily be 2-2"....but its not....thats 2-7 in the last 9 playoff games...wooooo hooooo....Boy that Richie is some leader
April 22, 2009 11:17 AM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 11:23 AM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 11:29 AM ET | Delete
lyricsninja - I had the same problem the other day...type a response and hit post message...refresh the page and the text is gone...not sure how it was fixed but it's working OK today for me...
April 22, 2009 11:29 AM ET | Delete
and yet.,..another Flyer genius showing his intellect....
April 22, 2009 11:32 AM ET | Delete
here lyrics....Ill post your post for you...Crosby whines and dives, Malkin is overrated, the refs hate the Flyers, Bettman wants Crosby in the Finals, Mike Richards is the greatest player since Gordie Howe, and this series could have easily been a Flyers sweep except for a few bad breaks....How did I do?
April 22, 2009 11:38 AM ET | Delete
Sid annoys me with how he plays the game... I think it was the McLean incident that cinched it... and I have no vested interest in this series aside from having called the Pens in six.
April 22, 2009 11:39 AM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 11:45 AM ET | Delete
Ive banned all Philly fans......my final REVENGE!!!!
April 22, 2009 11:48 AM ET | Delete
ice...nice post...i sent you a message...thunder is a waste of time...i think i read a term for these people...there called trolls...have a good one Ice
April 22, 2009 11:56 AM ET | Delete
This blog is from a Pens fan complaining about flyer fans, who complain about everything. Great Job! A
April 22, 2009 12:09 PM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 12:15 PM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 12:22 PM ET | Delete
thunder is a waste of time...BUT NOT WRONG!!! PENS IN FIVE!!! PENS IN FIVE!!!!! nah nah nah nah....nah nah nah nah....HEY HEY HEY....GOOOOOODD BBBYYEEEEE
April 22, 2009 12:55 PM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 12:56 PM ET | Delete
doh!...and now my comments are gone again...
April 22, 2009 1:00 PM ET | Delete
and now they are back...hmmm...I had multiple "tabs" open and my comments disappeared...closed the other tabs and now it works...hmmm...btw thanks to the flyer fans that sent me messages...seriously...good points...
April 22, 2009 1:01 PM ET | Delete
Just so everyone knows, TnL is RippedFuel's alternate login when he gets banned. Supposedly the mods have a way to check these things but never do. Anyway, Flyers fans whine way more than Crosby or Pens fans. It's fairly embarrasing IMO.
April 22, 2009 1:12 PM ET | Delete
ice, sorry for the 'insightfull' comment. Didnt read the whole blog, 1: it wasnt that interesting, 2: it was way too long. you lost me at Crosby diving, complaining, acting like a btch all the time. basically stating the facts.
April 22, 2009 1:23 PM ET | Delete
dengler8 - well, at least you have something to help you sleep at night if you need it...
April 22, 2009 1:32 PM ET | Delete
The real question is, do flyers fans complain more per capita? You probably see more complaining flyer fans here just because there are more flyer fans here.
April 22, 2009 1:51 PM ET | Delete
True we complain. The amount of complaining is directly equated with winning. Lose equals more complaining, win equals less complaining. Nice job on stating your intentions with the blog. I know how they can be taken the wrong way.
April 22, 2009 2:03 PM ET | Delete
April 22, 2009 2:53 PM ET | Delete
You could use an editor.
April 22, 2009 3:17 PM ET | Delete
asking who complains more than Philly fans is like asking who is a bigger fraud than Obama
April 22, 2009 4:25 PM ET | Delete
More fans mean more complainers, no? The ones who complain about the officials costing any team the game doesn't know hockey unless it's absolutely blatant and costs a team the game. This has happened once recently and that happened to the Oilers a couple of years back on a face-off and the blown hand pass call that negated a game tying goal.
April 22, 2009 5:15 PM ET | Delete
haahha they're gonna get pwned
April 22, 2009 6:11 PM ET | Delete
well put.
April 22, 2009 7:36 PM ET | Delete
April 23, 2009 2:32 PM ET | Delete
ITS ALL OVER..clap clap ...clap clap clap
April 24, 2009 8:26 AM ET | Delete
Not yet, bud. =)
April 24, 2009 8:04 PM ET | Delete
April 25, 2009 6:36 PM ET | Delete
It is now.....:)
April 26, 2009 1:28 AM ET | Delete
Philadelphia fans (in general, not just Flyers fans) - Ever wonder why truly great players don't love to play in Philadelphia? Maybe it's because when you aren't complaining about the officials or the opposing team cheating, YOU'RE BOOING YOUR OWN TEAM! Respect your teams and people will actually want to play there. When people WANT to play for Philly, you'll win championships again.
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