Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo - What's Done is Done.
Posted 1:00 AM ET | Comments 16
I have to say, when I first read about Upshall (and a 2nd) being traded for Carcillo I was pretty upset. Having given things time to digest, I'm not so upset. While I think the Yotes may have gotten the best of Homer on this one, this could end up working out ok for the Flyers.
While I really loved what Upshall brought to the team and believe he has a higher ceiling than Carcillo in terms of point production, Carcillo brings some assets to the table. He plays with more of an edge to his game, while still having some offensive upside. He's a great agitator and replaces some of what was lost in trading away Downie, while also upgrading the enforcer role with his considerable pugilistic acumen. He'll throw down with most anyone and, unlike current enforcer Riley Cote, Carcillo usually gets the best of his opponents.
Though not as fast as Upshall, Carcillo is no slouch out there and can skate and bring energy to go with his occasional scoring. He tends to be at his best when engaging physically, which seems to stoke his fire and drive his offensive production. Now, some have said this about Joffrey Lupul, but I don't think it applies. Lupul has enough talent to be effective, even when he's not being particularly physical, he just needs to bring a consistent effort to every shift, Carcillo it seems, may be the type that really needs to be physical to be effective out there.
Some observers think that Gretzky's attempt at changing his style this season, trying to turn him into more of a scorer, may have actually set him back a bit, by reeling in his aggression and thus cramping his true and most effective style. It makes sense when you consider his production has dropped off this season versus last, though he did tend to produce when playing with talent like Jokinen and Mueller...so it will be interesting to see how Carcillo plays with the likes of Carter Briere Giroux Powe Asham etc.
I think the key for Carcillo will be for him to play with that menacing edge while maintaining discipline and picking his spots carefully, so as to avoid taking unnecessary penalties, something the Flyers certainly don't need from him and something that probably wouldn't be tolerated for long. I expect that he might struggle with this early as he tries to find his identity and role on the team, so some patience may be required here. With the playoff race heating up I don't know if a lot of leeway will be given to him in this regard...I could easily see him taking some bad penalties where goals are socred against and the fans quickly turning on him. I'm hoping for everyone's sake he can find that balance, so as to avoid having to bear such a wrath...it could get ugly.
Scottie was a favorite of mine and had been since he became a Flyer. I think he has nice upside and it's really tough to see him go, but alas, the NHL is a business and Holmgren had to do what he had to do. Carcillo makes a little less (331k less per yr.) than Upshall does now and probably a lot less than what he'll be making next season, so, it gives the Flyers just a bit more breathing space to make certain maneuvers should it be necessary. I'd like to think that if the cap wasn't an issue here that this deal wouldn't have been made...but regardless, what's done is done. Upshall's a Coyote, and Carcillo is a Flyer. May they both do well!
While I really loved what Upshall brought to the team and believe he has a higher ceiling than Carcillo in terms of point production, Carcillo brings some assets to the table. He plays with more of an edge to his game, while still having some offensive upside. He's a great agitator and replaces some of what was lost in trading away Downie, while also upgrading the enforcer role with his considerable pugilistic acumen. He'll throw down with most anyone and, unlike current enforcer Riley Cote, Carcillo usually gets the best of his opponents.
Though not as fast as Upshall, Carcillo is no slouch out there and can skate and bring energy to go with his occasional scoring. He tends to be at his best when engaging physically, which seems to stoke his fire and drive his offensive production. Now, some have said this about Joffrey Lupul, but I don't think it applies. Lupul has enough talent to be effective, even when he's not being particularly physical, he just needs to bring a consistent effort to every shift, Carcillo it seems, may be the type that really needs to be physical to be effective out there.
Some observers think that Gretzky's attempt at changing his style this season, trying to turn him into more of a scorer, may have actually set him back a bit, by reeling in his aggression and thus cramping his true and most effective style. It makes sense when you consider his production has dropped off this season versus last, though he did tend to produce when playing with talent like Jokinen and Mueller...so it will be interesting to see how Carcillo plays with the likes of Carter Briere Giroux Powe Asham etc.
I think the key for Carcillo will be for him to play with that menacing edge while maintaining discipline and picking his spots carefully, so as to avoid taking unnecessary penalties, something the Flyers certainly don't need from him and something that probably wouldn't be tolerated for long. I expect that he might struggle with this early as he tries to find his identity and role on the team, so some patience may be required here. With the playoff race heating up I don't know if a lot of leeway will be given to him in this regard...I could easily see him taking some bad penalties where goals are socred against and the fans quickly turning on him. I'm hoping for everyone's sake he can find that balance, so as to avoid having to bear such a wrath...it could get ugly.
Scottie was a favorite of mine and had been since he became a Flyer. I think he has nice upside and it's really tough to see him go, but alas, the NHL is a business and Holmgren had to do what he had to do. Carcillo makes a little less (331k less per yr.) than Upshall does now and probably a lot less than what he'll be making next season, so, it gives the Flyers just a bit more breathing space to make certain maneuvers should it be necessary. I'd like to think that if the cap wasn't an issue here that this deal wouldn't have been made...but regardless, what's done is done. Upshall's a Coyote, and Carcillo is a Flyer. May they both do well!
I was pissed when the deal happened. Upshall has so much heart. That being said, Carcillo had 17goals last year and will drop the gloves. If he is going to be playing with Briere and Giroux, he will no doubt find chemistry and put some in the net. That line also needs someone who can crash the net like Hartnell, and be an enforcer to protect Briere and Giroux. He will be a good fit, and help with physicality in the lineup. I'm pretty excited to see how he does these first few games.
The only part that bothers me is the 2nd round pick. But even that isn't all that bothersome. This town will love Carcillo. I'm thinking the pick was thrown in because Carcillo has another year and Upshall will be an RFA.
Agreed. Plus the pick is 2011, and we have some talent in the pipeline to work with for now.
You lose on talent, to make space for Mac, who is a downgrade from the other guys you recently shipped out due to cap mismanagement.Homer needed to help the D and goaltending and did neither.
Metro was decent, and worth the 1mil he was getting, but was expendable. Vannenen didnt work out, so both of them were fine to hit waivers. I think Carcillo will be good for the team, but I do agree that Homer didnt address the issue of D and goaltending.
the trade was all about salary cap. the Flyers gave Phoenix a 2nd rounder to take the extra cap hit which in turn gives the Flyers the cap space to call someone up in case of injury without having to send Giroux down. I really hate the cap.....hate that money plays into hockey decisions.
Speaking from an "Old Time Hockey" mentality, the first bone crushing check this guy throws or the first big fight he wins will make me forget all about poor Upshall. My only concern are the meaningless penalties.
We cant have meaningless penalties. Hartnell is good for 1 or 2 a game. The cap does suck, but it keeps teams in check. Although the Rangers have had an all-star team the past 4 years and have done nothing with it.
When I saw this trade I was happy that this guy isn't in our division anymore.I think Philly wins this trade for sure.
This trade isnt that horrible. Im sure Homer tried to help the team in other ways but he was up against the cap, so rather than dismantling the chemistry and the roster of a team that is in the top ten in the league with an outside shot at the cup he decided to let it ride and hope Biron can reproduce last years playoffs and hope Timonen and Coburn dont go down again like last season.
turdperterson, good point there. We did it last season with defensive injuries, yet im afraid the talent in the east is much more then last year.
turd, I fear Holmgren did mess with the chemistry...he removed a well liked character guy who was a sparkplug for the team, for a loose cannon of questionable merit. I'm willing to wait and see, but I think some people are underestimating what Upshall meant to the team and underestimate the potential negatives a guy like Carcillo can have. My gut tells me the Flyers made a mistake here, but I hope it works out.
I agree with exlund. Watching that game last night I though to myself, Upshall would be the guy to score the first goal and spark the comeback. I understand the move was made because of the cap but I think it may have seriously messed with the teams psyche and chemistry. They looked like their heart was ripped out in that game last night.
Unfortunately, my fears seem to be playing out. Whether people like to admit to or not, I believe Upshall's absence from the team (and Carcillo's relative non-impact) is part of why they struggled down the stretch. Scottie brought heart and a consistent energy to the lineup. Those are the same things that the team seems to be lacking right now. :(